Bring Back Boredom (with the Hubs, Peter Kraus!)

Peter and I are catching up after a full Fourth of July weekend, plus a little Andie update (16 weeks and full of personality) and what we've been watching lately.

Then we dive into something I haven't been able to stop thinking about - I came across a post that basically argued about how we've forgotten how to be bored, and honestly I think it might be onto something. We talk about how our phones have filled every quiet moment, what boredom looked like growing up, and why watching Andie stare at a ceiling fan for twenty minutes has completely changed the way I think about slowing down.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Hello everyone, welcome into Hey Hannah. I'm your host, Hannah Ostapta Krause, joined by my lovely husband. My Rose is my husband, if you know what that's from. Hey Peter.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Huh? What is that?

SPEAKER_02 0:19

Oh god, it's a brilliant quote by Luanne Delesepps in Real Houseways of New York, where everyone's going around talking about like their rose and thorn of their trip. And it's an all-woman's trip, and she just randomly goes, My Rose is my husband. And it's like this guy that nobody likes to begin with, and everybody's like, uh, gross vomit. It's funny. Anyways, so.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Wait. Does that mean no one likes me?

SPEAKER_02 0:44

No, stop. I'm just using it. I'm just using it. My rose is always my husband. So Peter and I are coming to you from a sleepy evening after a full weekend of festivities from the 4th of July. I hope everyone had a really great 4th of July. Peter, how was yours?

SPEAKER_01 1:03

I'm very sleepy.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

I act like we didn't do it to everything together.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

It was great. It was a house full of love and laughter.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Can you put a little more pep in your stuff?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I've tried. I'm raising a brand new baby. I'm building a business, trying to open up multiple more gyms while maintaining those that I have that need to continue to increase in sales. I am exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

It's okay. You're allowed to be exhausted. I'm gonna delete all this because nobody wants to hear about exhaustion. It was wonderful. We're bringing the people down, Peter.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

You're living on a better lies.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

It's true. We're living on a better lies. We're all tired. So yeah, you know, for the July weekend, it was a time to be had. We had a really great time. My family came into town. I had my cousin here, who's like my sister, Alyssa, and her husband. And then their two kids, two boys who are four and six years old. So, you know, you like throw a newborn into that mix and it's already a little crazy. And then my older brother came into town too from Vegas. So Peter played hostess with the most us, and you were a man in the kitchen the entire weekend.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I was whipping up meals left and right.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Like truly, every meal you were in the kitchen, you're like, all right, I'll do this.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

I just found it to be easiest. Like it gave me something to do. Uh it made sure everybody was fed and also gave me a little bit of control of the situation. I knew everybody was gonna be hungry. I knew that protein had to be my priority, and I could just manage.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Well, that's true. Because if you rely on someone else to make like the group breakfast or like the group lunch, it could go poorly. Whereas if like you do it, then you're like, no, I know I'm gonna make this like good, healthy protein. You know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

And it was all simple meals. Like I made protein pancakes.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

I made a chicken salad, basically like a taco salad.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Tell the people about your protein pancakes, what you put in them. They're quick and easy. And I wake up like almost every Sunday morning requesting them.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

I've been making these for years. And I used to post them on Instagram years ago, back when I was in my influencer days. I didn't know what else to post. So literally I would just post pancakes.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Anyways, uh oats, as much oats as you like. I think for my height, weight, and age, I like to do about a half a cup of raw oats.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

And then uh half a banana for again the that setup, I guess. And then anywhere from really like four egg whites to six egg whites, and then one to two full eggs. Sure. And then uh cinnamon, vanilla, maybe a little splash of like cream or almond milk, depending on what you got in the fridge. Blend it all up, cook it on like medium low on a really nice warm pan. Get the pan warmed first so it doesn't stick. And then uh when it starts to bubble a little bit, you flip it and it should be nice and golden brown, and then you cook that through, and you got a perfect pancake.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

It's so good. It's so easy. We put peanut butter on it. I eat it with maple syrup.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

It's yeah, the the healthy protein pancake quickly went into normal pancake on most of the play.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, no, I'm I eat it with maple syrup every time.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

But it is like a guilt-free pancake.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

It to it totally is. I feel like my answer to that is what Elf says, where he's like, elves like to consume the four main food groups: candy, candy corn, candy cane, and syrup. That's how I feel about that.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Oh, it's delicious. It's so easy. It's great to make for a big group. We're staying in this house the summer that has a a cooktop griddle, which I've never had before. And I cooked six pancakes at a time.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Paper thin. This is what I'm talking perfectly cooked.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Man in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

With blueberries. It's delicious.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Uh yeah, you did a great job of that. And we had fun. We did it, we did a lot. We did the farmer's market. We beautiful. Uh we walked around, did some shopping one day. Oh, we did a little high rocks workout at PK Fit.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Including myself. Second run of the day, third step, popped my my calf.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Wait, what did you say? Including yourself?

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Second, including myself. Almost killed everybody, including myself.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Second run of the day, like three steps in, I popped my calf muscle and could not walk the rest of the day. I was like limping around. Completely gone the next day. It was just a cramp.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Turns out it was just a cramp.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Turns out you needed some water.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Yeah, I probably should have hydrated, slept, and done a little bit more for myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Yeah. Shout out to my cousin Alyssa for watching baby Andy while we finished the workout. That's actually been one of the weirdest adjustments to me, is not being able to work out with you. Because we always worked out together in workout classes. There's like weird things when you have your first baby that you miss about your husband. And I feel like I'll probably forget these things down the road because it just becomes a new normal. But like I miss riding in the front seat with you. Our baby doesn't love the car. So I sit in the back seat with her so I can, like, you know, play goo-goo-ga-ga. Yeah. And like crank my neck backwards so she could see me long enough to not freak out. Um, but I miss riding each shotgun with you. I miss going to the gym with you. Just like random things. I miss going on long walks, you know, after dinner because the baby goes to sleep. We can't leave the house. So it's nice to have company to be able to do some of those things again, you know? Although we really only cross one off the list, which was working out together. And I was pleased to do that. It was fun.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah, even little things like I think about us watching a show at the end of the night.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Can't watch it in the bedroom. And if we can, we can't watch it with like true volume. So you can't really appreciate the I guess like the complexities of a show.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Oh well.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

But we're here.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

There will be a gives and takes.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Well. So, see you guys next week. That's how it's so lucky.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

I'd still rather have a baby.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Yeah. I love my little baby. Quick Andy update. She is just the cutest little being in the whole world. She's about 16 weeks now. And she's really coming off. I'm at the point where like I can't do math on the weeks anymore. I have to just give you months. We're at about four months. And let me just say that I saw moms talk about how every month gets better with a newborn and how you enjoy every month a little bit more. And I'm here to say that that is absolutely true. The first month, really hard. Just like such an adjustment, and you feel so lopsided hormonally. Second month feels oddly similar. You're like still getting to know this person, still getting to know you at like in your new normal, all of it. And then slowly but surely, like every month gets better. A lot of people were like, oh, the four month sleep regression, just wait. But I do feel like I've been living in a sleep regression. I've talked to that, I've talked about that plenty. So it doesn't feel that different right now. So it feels good.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

She's also just more awake than ever, like emotionally, personality-wise. Just recently, she started kicking her legs nonstop at any given time throughout the day, which is just adorable. She's screaming, but happy screams. Like we all went out to Forge Kitchen the other day, the whole group of us, and she's standing in my lap, looking me in the face, and also her whole body just like stiffens like a board, and she just lets out this belt. And then you're like, kind of surprise herself. So she lets that out again and then again. And she's just like having fun discovering her feet, discovering her voice, discovering her hands. Yes, she's just like hands in her mouth all the time.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

A loud, geekly girl right now.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah, totally. It's so much fun.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

It's very sweet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

So cute. I mean, I've pretty much filled storage in my phone with pictures and videos of this child. There's nothing else.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I'm about to open another gym. It's awesome. I'm super excited. I come home and there's 50 pictures of my baby. Like it's still the greatest part of life.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

And it's that thing where she goes to sleep at night and Peter and I just go through our phones. Yeah. And look. It's like, yeah, looking at just photos of her.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Here's the pictures and videos that I took today. Oh, should we go back to last week? Oh, let's go back a couple months. Let's compare.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Oh, yeah. Oh, another quick update on what we've been watching. I feel like my television consumption has been pretty lackluster recently. I'm not caught up on anything on Bravo. I have not watched Real Housewives of Rhode Island in quite some time. Although, Peter, I got you to watch a little bit of it with me.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

I think I watched half an episode.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

You saw your fellow bachelor girl.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

I saw Ashley on there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

She's so normal. She she's doing great.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

The one episode that I watched with you, she had a very small part in the whole thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Yeah, she's like not at the helm of the drama, which again makes her like a very normal person.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Yeah, that's always been her. She was never involved in any of the drama. She's just, she was just and still is, I guess, known as the crier. That's like what gave her fame was.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

Which is like honestly, it's just fun. It's like fun. It makes for great television.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Innocent, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Yes. And she just like comes off as lovely, really.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

She's so sweet.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

So, anyways, not caught up on that. But Peter and I did start watching this other show that we have grown to like. It's called Four Seasons. It's on Netflix. It's with Tina Faye and Steve Carell. I think it's only one or two seasons right now. We're only on the first season, but it's based on that movie called The Four Seasons that was filmed, I believe, in the 70s.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

With the lead character from NASH.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Yeah. And I've been- You and I sat down to watch that. I quickly got bored and had to give it up.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

The movie.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

And then you got me to watch this, me not realizing it was based around that till about halfway through the first episode when you told me. And this is very good.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

I knew it. The original has Carol Burnett and uh Freedom Moreno.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

So yeah, the original.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Similar plot, totally different scenarios.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

It's like three different couples get together to vacation during four seasons of life. You don't really know how much distance there is between each trip, but you fill in the blanks based on the updates in their life and what's happening. The movie is like really slow and calm to watch, but the plot thickens when like one of the couples gets separated and the next trip looks a little different and whatever. But it's like again, it's like a very peaceful watch, the original. I'm talking about the 70s.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

I truly did not realize it was based around four seasons of life. That part had not yet seen.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah, remember in the intro, there's like a little graphic that had is summer and then there's one that's spring. Right now we're in summer.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Wasn't paying that close of attention. I just listened for the comedy.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Oh, got it. So yeah, now we're on we're only.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

It's hilarious. It makes so much more sense now.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Totally. The Netflix version. Now talking about the Netflix version. We're a few episodes in, and so far we really like it. It follows the same model of it being like a really peaceful watch, don't you think?

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Like there's no like loud comedy or obnoxious drama or great to watch while there's a baby in the room. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

There's not a lot of big noises, flashing lights. It's just a old school, simple watch where it's funny banter, weird, awkward relationships.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

It's just and like quick dry humor.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Yeah, it's very relaxed.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

It's it's nice. It's what we it's exactly what we need in this life right now for sort of like some downtime.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Yeah. Are we watching anything else?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

I feel like we've tried a few things.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

What else have we watched?

SPEAKER_01 12:27

We'll pick up a movie from time to time.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Oh, what was the good movie we watched recently? Project Hail Mary?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

With Ryan Gosling.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, it was really good.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

It was good.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

It was not at all what I expected.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Yeah, it took a weird turn.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

It did take a really weird turn. And I was like, oh god, I'm gonna stick with it. And it turned out pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

Although I did fall asleep about three quarters of the way.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah, you missed the whole middle part of the movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

One of those things where I'm like, I'm not asleep, I'm not asleep.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

And all of a sudden they're just like in space, like, how do we get here?

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

You missed a lot, babe.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

But Gosling was seemingly the perfect cast for that movie.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Ryan Gosling, the more I see him, the more I appreciate him. He is such a fun actor.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Yeah, he is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Gotta give him props.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

He plays the same, he does the same little isms in all of his movies, like the where he sort of talks to himself like he comes off like a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Which is have you ever seen Beyond the Pines?

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Oh yeah, the one with his now wife.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

He's very his character is very dark in that movie. And it's not at all like his other characters. Sure. And he's so good in it. And yeah, I watched him with something like this, and he's so good in this.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Do you remember him in Remember the Titans?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

He like plays a little music. He's so good in that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

And then there was um oh god, he and the the guy that's in the other show we're watching right now.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Steve Carrell.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Steve Carell. What's that one?

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Where he's the Oh god, crazy stupid love. One of the greatest movies of all time.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Excellent movie.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Truly an excellent movie.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

I feel like you and I have been on a kick of memoirs for a little bit. I know you listened to the Nike one.

unknown 14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

Shoe dog.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Yeah, shoe dogs.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

And then I listened to Matthew McConaughey's. Now you're listening to Matthew McConaughey's, but I feel like Gosling needs one of those books.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Oh, that would be really cool.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

I feel like you would do a really good job. He was in Mickey Mouse Clubhouse back in the day with Justin Timberlake, Brittany Spears, Christina Aguilera.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah.

unknown 14:19

Right?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

I'd love to hear it inside of that whole situation.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

He's like been in the business for so long. And then meeting his wife in the business. And then them keeping their kids private. Like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah, she stepped away pretty much from Hollywood. Matthew McConaughey's book started really slow and almost kind of awkward. Like the way he was speaking annoyed me. I I couldn't listen to it. And then you convinced me to push through. And after that, like prologue, it would get better. And it did. And now it's actually very good. And I've really enjoyed listening to it.

SPEAKER_02 14:49

Yeah. The prologue is very strange, I thought. It does not set the pace for this book at all.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

No, it really doesn't. I can just like picture him in the way he says he's like, Greenlight.

unknown 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Every time.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Green light. Sometimes he says it like that, where he's like, Greenlight.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Did you get to the part where he gets discovered?

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Uh no. I'm right now where he is just entering like the acting world. He got approval from his dad to ooh. Yeah. Anyways.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Okay. Okay. Well, speaking of quiet time at the end of the day, which is when we're watching all of our movies and our books and all of that. Peter and I discussed this thing that I think both of us saw separately on the internet. And it was about boredom. Somebody asked Claude, What's the most damaging change humanity never noticed? This is like what this stupid Instagram thing said. I'm just gonna read it all. It says, its answer wasn't war, climate change, or politics. It was death of boredom. For most of human history, boredom gave our minds room to think. It helped us process memories, spark new ideas, reflect on life, and gradually shape who we are. Moments spent staring out the window, waiting in line, or sitting in silence were wasted. They were where creativity and self-discovery often began. Then smartphones and endless algorithm feeds filled every quiet moment. We didn't just replace boredom with entertainment. We replaced the mental space where imagination, reflection, and original thinking naturally grow. The most surprising part is it never felt like a loss. It always felt like progress. So again, the question was what's the most damaging change humanity never noticed? Anyways, that answer went viral. And for good reason, honestly, it was one of those stupid things that you just like are scrolling and you see some stat, you know, some giant thing with text, and I got sucked into it, read it all. And I was like, whoa, I couldn't stop thinking about it. And coincidentally, that night that I saw that text, I was watching the movie A Cinderella Story with Peter's niece, who was hanging out with me for the night. And I was trying to educate her on some good movies, by the way. She's like 11 years old and had never seen that, and that was what I grew up with. Jennifer Coolidge and Hillary Duff. Oh, she's 12. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

She'd be very offended.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

She wouldn't be so offended. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, Charlotte. But anyways, we're watching that movie, and in the movie, Hilary Duff is there's a few scenes where she is going through some stuff in her room. Like she's having an episode, she's like, oh my god, my life is over. Jennifer Coolidge is ruining my life. And she goes through some boxes in her room, and there's like a montage of her, and she's writing in her journal. And I was like, dang, you know, I used to do that. I used to do that where I would like go through random stuff in my room when I was in high school, or like reorganize my bookshelf because I was bored. Or write in my journal, or just like organize some of my photos that I printed that week. Like and I got to thinking, when was the last time? Especially in the evening, because I felt like that was sort of a time where I enjoyed it the most. When was the last time I was really bored? Like really bored. I feel like we've gotten so used to filling in our lives with everything. Everything.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

And social media is anything.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

It can be TV, phone, computer. You can go as far as like phone calls. There's just constant distraction and entertainment.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Like when was the last time you were bored? Don't say now, I'll call you.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

I played the fifth. Um yeah, honestly. Quite some time ago. Couldn't tell you. Like drives. I'm usually pretty bored on my drives. Oh, there's long drives.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

And you can't grab a phone on a drive.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

No, so I'm sitting there listening to a book or playing music, and there's certain times where I just don't want to do either. And so I'm just stuck contemplating.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

But if you think about it now, it's like if you're standing in line somewhere, you look around, everyone's on their phone. Or, you know, like standing there waiting for the subway. I used to notice that all the time. A grocery store, people will have their headphones in, listen to a podcast, listening to their music, driving, listening to the radio, listening to a podcast. Texting and calling. Yeah. Folding folding laundry. People will put on a Netflix show. Like the list goes on and on. I feel like even people go to the bathroom and they're scrolling through tickets.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

True. Like and that's also weirdly enough, that's part of why people's health is declining, is because they're sitting on the pot too long with distraction. That's a real thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Oh my god, that's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah. It's so bad for your GI tract, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

I just I can't help but think about like this quote, whatever this is, this stupid quote, it sort of like rocked me. Like I couldn't stop thinking about it because it brought me back to this childlike version of myself where I felt like I developed my character, my imagination, like all of these things that I use now while I was bored. But I'm like, why haven't we done that again?

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Creativity comes out of boredom.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Right. Like when was the last time you drew? If anyone doesn't know this, Peter is a great artist. He has you have a few things that I found in your apartment when I first moved in, where I was like, dang, you drew this. And it would be those evenings when you were bored.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah. I think the hardest part in the lack of boredom right now is it used to be the creativity in my my art and now it's the creativity in my creation of the business. It's like in order for the business to progress, I have to be thinking about it.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

It's not gonna just happen. Right. In order to think about it, I have to, in essence, be bored.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

If I'm distracted by things all the time, my mind isn't focusing on the intricacies of the business to figure out how they can improve uh or pivot.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

And that's the main reason why I pretty much got back off Instagram is because in those few moments, and I I don't have many free moments of the day anymore. It feels like there's like limited time at the very end of the day, it's about it.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Or if I'm like in between meetings at my desk, all of a sudden I found myself scrolling, as opposed to in that moment, truly allowing myself to be bored, or at the end of the day, allowing myself to be bored and just like staring at the ceiling and thinking. And at first, your mind, my mind, I should say, really, doesn't go to the things that it needs to be. It's more like the boredom is setting in, like I'm searching for things to do or think about, or like almost like the anxiety of wanting to touch my phone kicks in. And as I sit in those moments and allow them to pass over time, that's when my mind will naturally start to flow into a different state of, you know, I'm thinking about what I did today. Could I have done that differently? Could I have done that better? How would I change or improve upon that? Moving forward, is that something I could correct? Is that something that would benefit the business long term? Who should I talk to or interact with? How did that situation go? Could I have done that differently? Could I have helped that person? Could I still help that person? What should I do next to help that person? Like all of a sudden, it just starts opening up all these little gates. Yeah. And next thing you know, it's a flood of information to the point where I start journaling it. All down.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

And I put it in my notes, but then I start putting all these notes in my phone. And sometimes that can actually go really far, or all of a sudden I'm up for another two hours. So I'm just on this like high of thought.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

That's what it is, though, that high of thought.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yes. And the one thing that can kill that is starting to scroll on Instagram. And next thing you know, it's an hour later, I'm still bored, have a headache. I feel like I'm missing something.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

And so I turn off my phone and I just stare at the ceiling, unable to sleep. And that's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

I feel like some of my best thoughts happen in the shower. Like my best ideas happen in the shower. But it's because I can't be distracted in a shower. There's literally nothing else I can do.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

I sing a lot. Make weird noises.

SPEAKER_02 22:44

Totally. You do.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Just start yodeling.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

It was funny. We were just talking about not yodeling, but about I was eating a handful of honey not cheerios. And I don't know if you guys remember doing this. Like as a kid, I used to just read the back of a cereal box. I weirdly feel like I've talked about this before. I don't know if I had. But like you didn't have a phone or TV to distract you before school. My brothers would still be getting ready for school. I would come downstairs and I would eat my bowl of cereal. But it's like, oh, I want to like look at something. So I would look at the back of the box and you do whatever like dumb weird game is on the back of the box. Anyways, Peter and I did that a few weeks ago in a Cheerios box. I I swear I feel like I said this before. And I miss that. Like I miss this like sort of ease of just doing the thing that's or like the ease of giving attention to the thing that's in front of you physically and not feeling like, oh, this is an opportunity of silence. Let me pick up my phone. And I'm not here to talk about like how social media is the devil and how it's terrible. Like I always love social media. I feel like I get good ideas from there. I keep in touch with my friends from there. There's like so many reasons why I think social media is great.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Um, it's just the feeling of like making space for boredom that has somehow disappeared in my life. So I'm like, I can't be alone. I feel like we all need to prioritize boredom again. And I also think, sorry, I'm on a tangent now. I also think that we grew up in the hustle culture where it was really cool to never be bored. Like if you were always busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, like you had it going on. And I think COVID sort of killed that. Like the COVID era really stopped the obnoxiousness of the hustle culture. But there was a time where like you shouldn't be at a coffee shop at 2 p.m. in the afternoon. You should be like I don't know if that was just me, but like you should be cranking it and killing it at work right now. You know? Yeah. Like it was sort of frowned upon to not be busy busy.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

I mean, I can't tell you how many conversations I've had where hi Ben, oh busy.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

I can't do anything. I'm sorry, I'm just really busy right now. It's like it's just such a default.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

And yeah, like a prideful thing. When the real flex is saying, actually, I I'm so good at what I do that I have a lot of free time.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

And I want to fulfill my everlast hope and dream with that free time because I've created a life that allows that.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

That's rich, rich, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Truly.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

I always say that now. Like, you know you've made it when you can go to a coffee shop at 2 p.m. on a Tuesday.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah. I feel like being a mom has also helped me notice how much our brains need a little bit of white space. Like babies stare at ceiling fans for like 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

They love it.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

They love it.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

I sometimes think when I'm the baby was laying on the mat today for about 20 minutes just cooing and having fun. And then you walked by and she remembered that you were there. And that's when she started cars. Oh my God, my mom, I forgot about her for a moment. I was just lost in whatever she was doing.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

I had that thought today too. That's so funny. When she did that, I was like, oh, she's in her own little world. Like I was like, oh, she'll probably be a good independent player. You know?

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yeah, yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

But yeah, like children bring out that level of boredom naturally, right? Like, because it's new to them. They are listening to birds. They're looking at leaves up close. They're admiring a squirrel that goes by. Like all those things that seem sort of mundane and like boring to us are so beautiful for a child. And that's why people always say that like having a child is like reliving your childhood in a sense. It's healing in so many ways because you get to see the world through their eyes. And it's always this like wonderment.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Yeah. But I think children by default are just very present.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Right.

unknown 26:44

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

And I think that's where we've gone our eye as adults, is we're always looking for the next best thing or like the greatest thing in the moment, as opposed to just slowing down and allowing yourself to be present in the moment and see that the most beautiful things are oftentimes just hidden in plain sight.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Like, how often do we hang out with people and there's this insane sunset? Like, oh, let's go do XYZ. It's like, why don't we just slow down and watch the beauty of this sun?

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Let's just sit here for a period of time.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Let's just sit here and watch the sunset.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Walking through the woods and having to play music. Like when I go golfing and guys are like blaring music, I'm just like, why? Like the golf in itself is the enjoyment, the the nature, all the sounds that are around you, the the sun, the wind, all that is part of the enjoyment of the experience.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

But then I can't help but think about this long term. Like, are we raising kids to never be bored? Generationally speaking.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Like I feel like every generation that's new is not used to the idea of boredom. And kids are different because no matter what, kids are entertained by like the toys in front of them. But it gets to a different level. I can't help but think of Toy Story 5, which I have not watched, but it's that thing of the iPad. You know, like the toys are like, oh my God, the iPad's here. But it's like has technology just become the thing that takes over every ounce of boredom.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

It can. But at the end of the day, it's not integrated into us yet. So you still have the opportunity to say no and walk away. All you have to do is shut your laptop or turn your phone upside down.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Walk outside. Like as much as parts of the world are being harmed and even decimated, there's still a lot of it that's open to you to walk around and explore. I mean, how many parks do we have in Madison that we can go walk and just relax in the silence of nature around us, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

You just have to choose to do it.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

There's also this thing of when I am filling time on my phone, obviously the time passes. And that's the negative thing, right? Like that I'm I'm truly wasting my time. Yes. Like truly wasting every second that I spend scrolling.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

And although it's like providing me with some level of fulfillment, it's so fleeting. It lasts truly two seconds. And it actually makes me feel like, oh, I want more. Like I need more things. I need you see someone wearing a cool skirt and you're like, dang, why don't I have a skirt like that? I need to do that. Or like you see someone posting a video and using products where you're like, oh wow, I should get stuff like that. Or why don't I make videos like this? This is pretty creative. I should do this in my free time. Like, but then you're just sitting there on your freaking phone. I feel like all unique ideas are out the window too, because it's like we're all just looking at what everyone else is doing and doing that thing. Like the unique ideas also come with the boredom, you know? I don't know. I just wanted to talk about this because when I saw it and you saw it, we both started talking about it separately. And I felt like it hasn't left my mind since then. Like I keep thinking about how to embrace the boredom in a positive way and in a way that like has a little bit of longevity, like making it a habit again. And not making picking up your phone or always having some background noise as the thing. Which is hard for me because I'm obsessed with podcasts and media in general. Like I love to consume everything. I really do.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

It really is an act of choice, just like anything else. Like no one's gonna do it for you. No one's gonna put down your phone for you.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

You have to choose that while there may be many great things within your phone or on your computer, there are other things that exist in the world around you that you could go experience instead of or in place of.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Okay, so what are some practical ways we could like try to be a little more bored in life right now?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Oh yeah. Just literally don't open your phone at night, wait till the morning. Like I'm most productive in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

I wake up, I don't know if high. And I go hit all my emails, respond to all my miss messages, and I'm good to go. Whereas at the end of the night, like I want to fill myself with that much potential stress right before bed.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Why would I want to be on that blue light right before bed? Um I can't fix anything at eight, nine, ten o'clock at night. Why would I waste my time opening up the messages? So put it down and allow yourself to just sit there in whatever silence you're in. Play games, play a board game, do a puzzle.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Do a puzzle. I love that idea.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Write.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Yes. Oh my god, like write something that's just been on your mind. Like write it down. Like write a list, write a poem, write a paragraph, like whatever format you want that feels comfortable to you. Like just start writing something. Go for a walk.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

I was gonna say before I met you, I was doing one, two-hour walks every single night with Daisy.

SPEAKER_03 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

And I helped that I had a dog. I was in a neighborhood that I felt safe in. So it was like easy for me to do that. But late night walks were probably the most peaceful thing I've ever done in my entire life. No one else is out. Everything's very quiet at that time. You can see a part of the world that is otherwise pretty hidden because you're walking in the dark and people's lights are on, and you kind of see into their homes and see how people decorate or see like maybe there's a show on they're watching. And it's just interesting to get a quick little glimpse as you go walking by. Like, don't sit there and stare. It's not weird. Of course, of course. But a little glimpse as you go by of someone else's little world.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

And it's oh yeah, that reminds me so much of living in New York City. Like you can always see in people's little windows, and you're like, oh, family's eating dinner.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Oh, one time, I'll never forget, in our old neighborhood, I went for a walk and there was a young couple, I would guess, in their early 20s. Uh obviously like the living room windows are open as I'm walking by, so I happen to see in.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

And they were painting the walls of what I can only guess was their brand new home that they just bought together.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

And it was like such a sweet little moment to get a little glimpse of. And I wanted to say like, congratulations and good luck. But that would be very weird. I didn't, but I thought it. And that was because, like I said, on these walks, I didn't even bring my phone.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Uh that's not a thing too. Like, we we brought cameras along everywhere we went for the longest time.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

And now we bring our phones with everywhere we go. Right. And it's because what if something needs to be captured? And my reverse is like, what if something doesn't get captured? Do we lose it? Do we miss it? No. Like we're just there to appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

And then we start telling stories. We we remind people of experiences. We talk about experiences. We share experiences.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

We get to take almost like enjoyment in the fact that we're the only ones to witness that and we can tell the story however we want or remember it however we want.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

That's yeah, that's been kind of lost at the same time, too.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

It's so true. I think about how many times I have a TV show on, but then I'm also on my phone. And there is like there is a level of coziness to sitting on your phone and doing like a quick catch up and like scrolling and seeing what's going on. And like, you know, people call it rotting. The kids call it rotting these days. I hate that term. I know I hate the term too. I'm like, I'm like, ooh, I don't want to rot. But it's like they call it a bed rot. And like I get it when you're when you're fully in the mood to just like lay and be lazy. But I'm not talking about those days. I'm talking about the days where like you sort of miss inspiration in your life and you miss a little like creative thinking, letting your mind wander. I actually, that's one of the reasons why I love going to the gym, is because when I'm working out, like if I have music on, I'm letting my mind wander a little bit. The same way I would like in the shower, where I'm just thinking of different work ideas, or I'm like, oh, you know what? I should reach out to this person. I haven't done that in a while. My mind is in a free flow state and not in a consumption state, you know?

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Yeah. It's also very hard for people to remember things during a like a consumption state, I guess you'd call it.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

And I think back to like my time on the bachelorette when our phones were literally taken from us.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

And we could never touch them for 11 weeks was the extent of it. And how I can remember if I were to really sit and think, I could probably tell you what happened every day in chronological order.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Whereas right now I couldn't tell you what I did last week on any given day.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

And it's because you're constantly distracted from moment to moment, there's something filling those gaps. And so you you never really have time to sit and reflect. Reflect, yeah, but like absorb. Like truly absorb what just happened. And maybe like some of those walks are so memorable, or like sunset's unmemorable because there's really nothing bookending it. Like you're truly in those experiences and absorbing them.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

We should try to do something where we feel like that could be more memorable.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

I think it's literally just putting our phones down at night.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

I think we've both been doing a better job of it.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

We have. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

And once the baby's asleep, we're just both so exhausted that it's like, let's watch a show, or I'll I just sit there and I literally do a puzzle on my phone. You catch up on your gossip stuff.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Gossip stuff.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

And we call it a night.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah. All right. Well, on that note, let's go be a little bored. I guess I would say I encourage you. If you've listened this far, I encourage you to do something that would make you feel otherwise a little bored. Remember back in the day when you would like forget your headphones on your way to school, you're like, dang, I don't have my headphones today. Or like, let's say you forgot your headphones at the gym, or you haven't caught up on the your favorite podcast or something that you normally put on on that normal drive that you take every Tuesday. Maybe just I encourage you to try a new level of boredom. And maybe it's removing some form of consumption and letting your brain just flow, you know?

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Yeah. I think it's kind of along that same line of appreciating missed opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

Yes. Um look around.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Make up a game in your head. Like the thing you used to do when you were a kid that helped you pass the time as a kid. Like bring it back somehow and see how it feels.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Because if it feels the same way it felt when I looked at the back of my Honey Net Cheeros box, it feels pretty good. Feels like a fun way to pass the time. And then suddenly you're like, huh. Wow. I forgot what day it was. Who like phone what? You know?

SPEAKER_01 37:24

And next thing you might find yourself staring in the mirror at someone who's staring back, not realizing that you weren't intending to stare at them. You were just gazing off in the distance. And now you have to apologize for staring at them.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

No, you were saying stare in the mirror.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

So I was like staring in the mirror.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

I was like, are you?

SPEAKER_01 37:39

You're another gym, like when you do forget something, like you're just like you're just in between sets and you're just like gazing off into like some moment of thought, and all of a sudden you're not like, oh, I've locked eyes with somebody.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Oh my god, and they think I'm looking at them.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Not me too. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm going to just go leave now.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

One of my favorite comedians told the story once about how he was in like a really comfortable stare, forgetting where he was. And he was at a stoplight and he was just staring at the car next to him, like not paying attention. And he came out of the stair when the subject that he was looking at, who was a woman, rolled her window down and then showed off her wedding ring. Like, like what? Like she did like little spirit fingers with her fingers. And um, and then he was like, Wait, why is she showing a ring? And he's like, Oh my gosh, she thinks I'm staring at her. Hold on. Tough.

unknown 38:24

Oops.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Anyways, well, thank you so much for listening. And Peter, thank you for jumping on and talking a little bit of boredom with me. Love you.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Love you too. It's bedtime.

SPEAKER_02 38:35

It's bedtime. I hope everyone has a great week. And I hope everyone really enjoyed your 4th of July. And I hope, by the way, the summer is the best time to be a little bored. If you didn't enjoy a little bit of that during the 4th of July, make sure you get someone this week. But talk to you guys soon. Bye for now.

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Bye bye.